Ban Appeal

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by MrKit678, Feb 26, 2018.

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  1. MrKit678

    MrKit678 Member

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    Thread Title: Ban Appeal

    Steam Name: MrKit678

    Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/id/MrKit678/

    Admin who Banned you: AJ

    Reason of Ban: "Mass RDM"

    Your Explanation of the Situation:
    1st RDM: Opened elevator door Traitor was holding a frag, it had frag written on the side i called a kos - then threw the frag at that point i opened fire, would have cancelled the KOS had he not thrown it. There is a difference between a frag and a discombob. After he died frag blew up fully confirming it was a frag - as i had clearly seen before.

    2nd RDM: Overtime, Unidentified Body outside, Hiding in lift - lift door closed he was hanging around outside a while as it was locked and couldn't be opened for a time. Door opened and i knifed him - Cant remember but chance he shot before i knifed.

    "Killing a player based on a Sound, Skin, Location, or Weapon. Only High Sus" Shooting and death outside, it was overtime"

    3rd RDM: This one was an RDM, i had a 50/50 chance of killing the t i killed the wrong person

    Why you should be unbanned:
    Explained above, evidence, circumstances, etc. And overall i play well and i hardly do anything rule breaking just the occasional accidental RDM - Two of these circumstances had evidence and proof to then kos.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________Side Note: Mass RDM is not defined on the forums and mass as in mass killings is defined as four or more
    Also AJ commenting is (i think) conflict of interest so unless its too support this shoo.

    Look a two week ban is completely unfair 2-3 slays i would be willing to accept but not two weeks for some weak as reports.
     
  2. A-J

    A-J Never gonna give a rock Staff Member TTT Admin

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    @Community Manager

    My Response:

    Preface: Thank you for making an appeal as I requested. I will go through each RDM in turn and explain what happened, what you argued at the time and what the evidence suggested to me was right. I had a very lengthy discussion with you before and after the ban was put in place during which you changed your story many times, at times lied about the facts and often brought up things which were not relevant or would be retroactively difficult to confirm or deny. I will attempt to remain objective however let it be known that I was frustrated at the constant back and forths during which I implored you to make an appeal properly. I will use what you argued/said before the ban was placed since to be quite frank, I believe you have changed your story too many times afterwards to be telling the truth. Map was Orange just FYI

    1st RDM: You KOS'd and shot at a traitor, damaging said traitor who was holding a frag. He threw the frag after this (which the logs will show if you wish to see them). You claimed in your report response that he threw a frag, which was proven when it exploded, yet you KOS'd and shot him before he even threw the frag. There is no reasonable way to tell in the heat of the moment the difference between a frag and a discombob and many of the top players on the server would agree with this given even they don't shoot anyone until after the frag/discombob has detonated. Claiming that you were able to read the fine print on the frag in someone elses hand across the room is ludicrous. This is straight forward RDM and slayable, report was not forgiven.

    2nd RDM: You came out of the elevator and proceeded to knife the target, who was the last traitor but not the last alive.
    • In the report response you claimed he was high sussed and it was overtime. After a discussion we had you were unable to substantiate this claim and did not argue it further. You in fact conceded to me that this was RDM in admin chat.
    • You also claimed to believe he had opened the elevator door and that you thought it might be a traitor trap. While it is a trap to close and lock players in there, opening is done by anybody (provided it is not locked).
    At no point during our discussion after the event did you bring up an unidentified body being outside and only mentioned it to me an hour later where it could not be checked. Regardless my recollection is that there was no unidentified body around and even if there was, you did not give the player any chance to ID the body as you went straight for them when the elevator opened. As for him shooting you before you killed him, again you only mentioned this an hour later when it is not easy to verify. Even so he would have ample reason to shoot given you were charging him with a knife, therefore any 'chance' he shot at you is not really relevant to your appeal. The report was not forgiven. This is RDM and slayable.

    3rd RDM: You had already high suss'd me for not testing, which was a legitimate high suss. I later on in the same round KOS'd and killed a traitor (makuna) but did not openly claim proven. At the 3.05 time mark you knifed me. It was not overtime and I was proven. Your reasoning in the report was that there was a 50/50 chance and therefore not RDM. RDM literally means random death match (as you had to ask me about later) and any chance like that implys a random nature to the killing. If we allowed players to be killed based on 50/50 chances then the entire rounds would be RDM filled, there is no way to imply this is not a slayable report. I considered forgiving the report as I tend to do when solo admining (conflict of interest) but after having been RDM'd a number of times by you over the past week I really did not feel all that forgiving to such a blatant RDM. You have not put forward anything to question this report being slayable.

    Conclusion:
    For starters, it says very clearly in the !motd (which comes up everytime you join) that multiple RDM = a mass RDM, it is not wise to come along and try to argue semantics on this. 3 slayable reports in a single map is the common mass RDM amount. As for your character I do not believe you are intentionally trying to cause grief to any players. Although you have been noted for ghosting behaviour in the past and have a previous ban to your name. I will say that you do need to learn the rules around RDM properly as I myself have noticed a number of times where players were unsure as to why you killed them, some choose to forgive or could not be bothered enough to report.

    The ban length of 2 weeks is the standard ban length time for a Mass RDM (2nd ban). 1 week for the Mass RDM and 1 extra week for it being your second ban. While I do not believe you to be a bad person I do believe you could have easily avoided these reports had you simply followed the rules rather than guess at traitors. I leave it up to the CM who handles this appeal to decide upon any leniency and whether or not any further evidence/information is required.
     
  3. MrKit678

    MrKit678 Member

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    Oof.

    1st RDM And legit the door opened and i was crouched with the frag and he stood there for like 5 seconds with it RIGHT in my face - that frag was for sure a frag
    also coloration is slightly different frags being slightly brighter in colour

    3rd RDM i did say was an RDM i just got unlucky.

    2nd RDM This one you could give the benefit of the doubt to him so yea

    But the frag was so obviously a frag, if someone walked up to you holding a grenade you would kill them
    - Having a Traitor only weapon (Does not apply if you announce that you found it or you are proven). (again a frag?)
    - Following players with dangerous items or walking dangerous items towards people. (Explosives, mine turtles, damaging props). (a frag maybe?)

    The ridiculous thing is had there either been no admin, nobody would have cared and had i killed, not killed, not killed, killed, not kill and then killed it would have been three slays not a ban. The amount of people forgiven is another issue had one just said eh who cares he got me fair and square (Which i did) then i would have only been slain

    Its just a fun game where yea sometimes mistakes are made - but banning someone for two weeks is just over the top and stupid especially on fairly weak basis. Where your proof that i didn't see it was a frag? Its a presumption, i claim i saw it and i see no real evidence on your behalf to be able to depute that.

    Also the 2nd RDM - In game i focused on the frag, while writing my appeal on that i later asked the second one, i based that on my recollection - surely if you ban someone you would keep logs to confirm this? Evidence does lack but i will give the benefit of the doubt its an RDM, So Strike 1

    Back to the third one yes that was a clear RDM so strike 2

    Two slays not a ban. And how come such a harsh differential? Surely a 3 hour ban suffices for three RDM's? Maybe for 5 a week would be fair

    But i will suggest make rules cleared and define thing such as MASS RDM, the general amount for that would be 4 onwards

    *In Response to AJ's Comment
     
  4. MrKit678

    MrKit678 Member

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    I'm Grumpy - I support the server i play it the most and then when small thing of alleged RDM get me banned it frustrates me.
     
  5. MrKit678

    MrKit678 Member

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    @AJ i do want to add i'm sorry but i didn't change my story, just went through each event, i began with the first one and didn't add anything on - i just said saw the frag, kosed he threw it running off and it detonated and he died (in approx, that order) Also the 2nd RDM i forgot what i even did and was racking my brain piecing together what happened from memory. only asking to confirm theory's and thoughts from memory as you know when you kill someone you hardly commit it to memory. I took my time trying to bring to light exact events.

    Anyways yes in the reports i did claim there was a hsus on him i only claimed that for him to back off - yes bad (for RDM 2) i know.
     
  6. A-J

    A-J Never gonna give a rock Staff Member TTT Admin

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    With regards to the frag, we routinely slay for reports where players choose to assume a frag has been thrown and not a discombob, given they are the same model. Here are the actual logs for the frag RDM.

    snip_20180226071428.png

    • As is plain to see, you used the radio traitor bind and got 2 shots onto the traitor before he even threw the frag. Note that the log shows the time of priming, not throwing so he was not cooking it either.

    Here are the logs for the knife kill on the elevator:

    snip_20180226071215.png

    • No shots were registered by the traitor before you knifed. No radio binds were registered calling him out as a traitor. As for unidentified bodies there were at most 2 at the time based on the logs I can see, which isn't taking into account the cannibal and dragon eagle purchase which should have removed at least 1 of the bodies. It is not likely an unidentified body was in view. They were not the last other person alive either.

    For completeness here are the logs for the knife on myself:

    snip_20180226071508.png

    • Pretty straight forward, no shots and before overtime.

    I really do not know what to say here except that people do care when they are unfairly killed, that is why they reported you and did not forgive. 3 slays in a map is always a ban, had no admin been on it would have been up to somebody to make a ban request on the forums. From your point of view you might have been having fun and not caring, for those on the receiving end they had no chance to have fun because of you.
    Please do not try to tell us how to run the server, that is not for you to decide. I hope you are not implying that if you knew the limit for a ban you would have changed your behaviour, it says a lot for your character.
    Admitting to lying in your reports to avoid the person keeping it is not wise. In the future I would advise you to be more honest in your reports and more remorseful, rather than fibbing and trying to worm your way out of any punishment, which is exactly what you are doing here.
     
  7. Newman

    Newman #1 Newton Launcherer Elite Trusted

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    DENIED/CLOSED

    The only RDM you seem to have issue with is the frag/discomb kill so I'll just clarify that the frag and dicombobulator use the exact same model, so there is no way to tell them apart until they explode, and you cannot assume it is a frag and KOS/kill them.

    The ban will stay as two weeks is the typical time for a second ban for Mass RDM, and you've been on the server enough that you should know the basic rules surrounding RDM. See you in two weeks time.
     
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